Wrong. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. [6] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages.[7]. Business, Economics, and Finance.
Niall of the Nine Hostages, One of the Most Fruitful Kings in History The newspaper articles are based on a dissertation: A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland by Laoise T. Moore and Brian McEvoy, with Eleanor Cape. [11] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. 1 / 5. "Nialls first expedition was into Alba to subdue the Picts. I may be wrong though. [3] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379-405, [4] and the chronology . After obtaining obedience from the Picts, his next foreign raid was into Britain. [6], However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[4] and Francis J. Byrne[3]:7879 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. Battles, who may have lived in the middle of the 2nd century and was reputedly
Descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages | Facebook Women do not have Y-dna. haplotype originated at least several centuries before Niall is claimed to have lived, so his descendants would only represent a minority of men in this group. M222 is roughly 2000 years old, so even though it is mostly found among men with Irish or Scottish heritage, it's not unusual to find it anywhere in Europe. However, the genetic evidence of the study does seem to show that the The only company that does Y-dna tests is FTdna (FamilyTreeDNA). Paternal lines are inherited through the Y chromosome, which only men have. [13 ], In January 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. Each brother in turn goes looking for water, and finds a well guarded by a hideous hag who demands a kiss in return for water. [10] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. Niall's first expedition was into Alba to subdue the Picts. Fergus and Ailill refuse and return empty-handed. stories say that the future St Patrick was among hostages taken from one such He estimated that two million to three million. The Spread of DNA From "Niall of the Nine Hostages". Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die.
If Irish Claim Nobility,Science May Approve - The New York Times His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. [24] The series suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. 1 Reply Ziff-A-Dee-Dew-Law 4 yr. ago Father of Fiachu mac Nill, King of Meath; Conall Gulban mac Nill, King of Tirconal; Egan mac Nill; Legaire, High King of Ireland; Min mac Nill and 3 others; Conall Cremthainn mac Nill; Cairbre mac Nill, High King of Ireland and ndae mac Nill less, There are arguments to be made for Niall as an historical figure, but the father assigned to him in the genealogies comes from a long line of legendary kings; his profile can be found here: Eochaid mac Muiredach mac Muiredach, Ard-r na h'ireann {Legendary, Lebor Gabla renn}, http://www.friesian.com/perifran.htm#england. Niall of the Nine Hostages leapt from the legends of Ireland straight into the modern world when scientists at Trinity College Dublin revealed that as many as three million men living today may carry his y-DNA signature. There is nothing weird about someone with 0.00% measurable Irish ethnicity being one of his descendants. Niall Nogillach "of the Nine Hostages" may have lived in the previous century, and the dates given for St. Patrick depend on identifying him with a "Palladius," who is mentioned by a contemporary chronicler as having been sent by the Pope as the first bishop of the Irish. Our DNA tests indicate that we "share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages. Connect to the World Family Tree to find out, Tir Eogain (now Tyron) , Northern Ireland (United Kingdom), Forgotten Monarchy, Scotland (United Kingdom), Conall Gulban mac Nill, King of Tirconal, Eochaid mac Muiredach mac Muiredach, Ard-r na h'ireann {Legendary, Lebor Gabla renn}, http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/niall-of-the-nine-hostages.html. The Primitive Irish Vendo is a cognate with Finn, and the Fianna were landless, aristocratic young men and women who had not yet come into their inheritance of land. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. [4] Byrne, following James Carney, is a little more precise, dating his death to c. [6 ] Indeed, Keating describes her not as a Saxon but as the "daughter of the king of Britain". GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. Niall of the Nine Hostages. [3]:70, T. F. O'Rahilly argues that Niall and his sons were responsible for the breakup of the ancient kingdom of Ulster and the creation of the kingdoms of Tr Chonaill and Tr Eoghain, and the satellite kingdom of the Airgalla. Throughout the 1600 and 1700s, thousands of Irish men of fighting age would migrate to Europe as 'Soldiers for Hire' to fight in various wars. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The Vikings were driven out in 1014 by Brian Boru, but not before their DNA was embedded in the Celtic gene. Niall of the Nine Hostages, (in Irish, Niall Naoi Nogiallach) is a quasi-historical character in Ireland's story. When she was pregnant with Niall, Eochaid's first wife Mongfind was jealous and made her do heavy labour, hoping to make her . [S9180] "Email, no hard copy" , Stewart Baldwin Medieval-L Quoting from "A New History of Ireland" except generations 5-8, which are given in the Ban Shenchus and confirmed in the O'Cathalain pedigree in O'Clery 857.
Cairenn - Wikipedia [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Even if you were alive at the same time as Niall, your common paternal ancestor still would have been thousands of years back. and our bronze slippers. Niall of the Nine Hostages was around 50+ generations ago. His name comes from a tale of nine hostages that he held from the regions he ruled over. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. (Remember that women have two X chromosomes while men have one X and one Y chromosome).
Macneil clan shocked as DNA checks force rewrite of history He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[11] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). Patrick escaped from Ireland after six years of slavery, became a bishop, and returned to Ireland to convert its people to Christianity." widespread in literature around the world. ", Annala Rioghachta Eireann. [7] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. I was just wandering because it said most Irish have the common ancestor as well. Birth of Conall Gulban mac Nill, King of Tirconal, Birth of Cairbre mac Nill, High King of Ireland, 126th HIgh KIng of Ireland, Greatest High King of Ireland, aka Nial Mor NAOIGHIALLACH `of the Nine Hostages'; 1st King (but reckoned 126th MONARCH) of IRELAND; conquered nine countries (incl. and tr. The association with Niall is based on an outdated study that noted many M222 men have surnames that supposedly come from Niall or his descendants. Niall releases Fiachrae, who becomes king of Connacht and Niall's right hand man. [19], Following a 2006 hypothesis by Moore et al. 100% Irish? We've all technically got "common ancestor" with Niall because we've all got a common paternal ancestor. [26], Perhaps even more problematic is the dearth of M222 lineages in Midlands samples. A subreddit about all things genealogy provided it's not about living people. [5] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. Modern surnames tracing their ancestry to Niall include (O')Neill, (O')Gallagher, (O')Boyle, (O')Doherty, O'Donnell, Connor, Cannon, Bradley, O'Reilly, Flynn, (Mc)Kee, Campbell, Devlin, Donnelly, Egan, Gormley, Hynes, McCaul, McGovern, McLoughlin, McManus, McMenamin, Molloy, O'Kane, O'Rourke and Quinn. While Brian saved the cariots from the fire, Ailill a shield and a sword, Fiachra the old forge trough, and Fergus only a bundle of firewood, Niall carried out the bellows, the sledges, the anvil, and anvil block - saved the soul of the forge, and saved the smith from ruin. mutations (changes) occur infrequently but, when they do, they help to
23andMe says I have paternal ancestry from Niall of the 9 Hostages Known as Niall of the Nine Hostages from the nine counties of Ireland that he subued and made tributary to him. He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[11] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). have been High King of Ireland. Nialls . Geni requires JavaScript! Boyle, Bradley, Campbell, Cannon, Coleman, Connor, Devlin, Doherty, Donnell, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breogn From the Wikipedia page about Breogan: Although this is generally regarded as myth, the conquering of Ireland by people coming from the Iberian peninsula in prehistoric times fits in with a genetic study conducted in 2006 at Oxford University, which concluded that the majority of people in the British Isles are actually descended from neolithic farmers coming from the coastal north regions of Spain. However, I belong to the R-L20 haplogroup, which is more common in continental Europe, and not Ireland where R-L21 is dominant. children, from wives or concubines, were acknowledged. Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person, [2] :70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. [2] A poem by the 11th-century poet Cined Ua Hartacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[2][13] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times. concluded that these men descend from "a single early-medieval progenitor" and proposed that this could be Niall. mutations (changes) occur infrequently but, when they do, they help to Nearly 37 million Americans claim to have Irish heritage according to a national survey conducted in 2009. One of Niall of the Nine Hostages , or Niall Nigiallach, was the youngest son of Eochaidh Mugmedon (King of Connacht). Professor Dith hgin seems to indicate that Niall was likely a descendant of the Gaulish seafaring tribe of the Veneti, who originated in south-east Armorica (modern Brittany, France). Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. [8] Accession, Sithchenn takes the brothers to the smith, who makes them weapons, and sends them out hunting. distinguish one line of DNA from another. Seeing Niall's popularity among the nobles, Mongfind demands that Eochaid name a successor, hoping it will be one of her sons. This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. Across the island as a whole, a different sub-clade the M269 pattern is Similarly, the Genographic Project is a virtual gathering of humanity connected by myriad migration routes around the world over the last 60,000 years. Perhaps more myth than man, Niall of the Nine Hostages is said to have been a King of Tara in northwestern Ireland in the late 4th century C.E. Over the generations, a genetic I was just wandering because it said most Irish have the common ancestor as well. These sources date from long after Niall's time and their value as history is limited at best. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. [9] He is succeeded by his nephew Nath . Byrne suggests that Niall's death took place during a raid on Roman Britain. Niall moved across the Shannon where he founded the dynasty of Uisnech in Westmeath. of Niall's promiscuity (a trait that, according to Celtic thinking, went hand Learning about our ancestry is particularly fun when we can toast to it. Donnelly, Egan, Flynn, Gallagher, Gormley, Hynes, Kane, McGovern, McLoughlin, Niall belongs to Haplogroup R1b1c7 (M222). It was in one of these Gallic expeditions that the lad Succat, destined under his later name of Patrick to be the greatest and noblest figure Ireland ever knew, was taken in a sweep of captives, carried to Ireland and to Antrim, there to herd the swine of the chieftain, Milcho. tales as these old hag transformed by physical intimacy of a young man are In my case, my maternal line, traced through mitochondrial DNA that I inherited from my mother (thanks Mom! Patricus later came to be known as St. Patrick.
Niall of the Nine Hostages - FamilyTreeDNA Forums Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. More info: https://www.familytreedna.com/landing/matching-niall.aspx. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. For it is said his was the host referred to by the Roman poet, Claudian, when in praising the Roman general, Stilicho, he says Britain was protected by this bold general. I, A Social History of Ancient Ireland, Vol. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. She grants Niall not only water but the kingship for many generations - twenty-six of his descendants will be High Kings of Ireland. Why not list William the Conqueror or someone else? Maternal lines are inherited through mitochondrial DNA both women and men have mitochondrial DNA, but its only the mothers mitochondrial DNA that is passed on to a child. County Mayo folks have Viking blood as well as that of Niall of the Hostages. The Picts tired of Nialls' ways and attacked the small Lirsh colony of Dalriada, which is now Scotland. While the signature is typical for R1b European males in general, it is characterized by 11,13 at DYS 385a/b and 14 at DYS 392. Oh, got it. 390-461). Niall, who emerges carrying an anvil, is deemed greater than Brin, with a sledgehammer, Fiachrae with bellows and a pail of beer, Ailill with a chest of weapons, and Fergus with a bundle of wood. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[3]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. Although these studies are not coordinated with each other and are ongoing, it is already apparent that not all of these lineages are related to each other within Niall's timeframe. What is a paternal line? [23] Origin of his epithet[edit] There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. These raids did much to weaken the power of Rome in Britain and France. His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill at Jordanstown, a few miles west of Navan in County Meath. By the 8th century, the Ui Nills held power in the north west where they were known as the Northern Ui Nill, and also in the Midlands where they are known as the Southern Ui Nill. Receive the latest from your DNA community. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. Thousands of years is a long time. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. [8]:222232 O'Rahilly and Byrne argue that the literary sources, though late and garbled, preserve genuine traditions that Niall led raids on Britain, and perhaps died on one. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. Could I claim that (a) it's an Irish haplgroup, (b) that it can be traced back to the warring clans of the Ui Neill dynasty? Yet his fall in a foreign land was to be compassed, not by the strategy or might of the foreign enemy, but by the treachery of one of his own. Dedicated to helping YOU discover your Irish Heritage. fingerprint of Niall of the Nine Hostages in the y-DNA of one in five men
r/23andme - Anyone else related to Niall of the Nine Hostages? Was he Copyright Claire Santry 2008-2023 Irish-Genealogy-Toolkit.com. Legaire, High King of Ireland+ d. 463 (1), http://www.thepeerage.com/p11402.htm#i114018, -----------------------------------------------, Further information: U Nill descendants. For instance, the chiefs of Clan Donald are now known to belong to a branch of Haplogroup R1a, which split from Niall's hypothetical lineage over 20,000 years ago. (21%). Several testing companies can do this test: Of note to Family Tree DNA customers, this signature is found in .6 of one percent of the entire family Tree DNA database. Niall releases Fiachrae, who becomes king of Connacht and Niall's right-hand man. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinsterare not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. Niall married Princess Of Britain ROIGHNEACH. Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish high king Lugaid Logde, in Arthurian legend one of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnell and in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. [8 ], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. In the study scientists found an area in northwest Ireland where they claim 21.5% carry Nialls genetic fingerprint, says Brian McVoy, one of the team at Trinity. Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. Check out our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/wiki/index#wiki_faq_.28frequently_asked_questions.29)! Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. Sithchenn takes the brothers to the smith, who makes them weapons, and sends them out hunting. Fiachrae gives her a quick peck, but not enough to satisfy her. Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. In The https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1195848313/niall-and-the-stone http://www.genealogy4u.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I17949& http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk/cgi-bin/gedlkup/n=royal. McManus, Molloy, Reilly, Rourke and Quinn. the guts to give her a small kiss, for which she grants him sight of Tara and 452. One of them, Patrick, was the sixteen-year old son of a British Roman official. [7]:222232 O'Rahilly and Byrne argue that the literary sources, though late and garbled, preserve genuine traditions that Niall led raids on Britain, and perhaps died on one. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts In 2019, 23andMe teamed up with Airbnb to take ancestry from the page to the world stage through a newly launched Heritage Travel program. Mong Fionn was a bitter, jealous and ambitious woman, who set her heart upon having her son, Brian, succeed his father as Ard Righ. ), "Echtra Mac nEchach Muigmedin: The Adventures of the Sons of Eochaid Muigmedin", in, This page was last edited on 17 February 2023, at 06:56. [14] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. https://reddit.app.link/S7mCRh4DeR I think you're probably right about the Northern Spain theory. November 25, 2016. [2]:81, T. F. O'Rahilly argues that Niall and his sons were responsible for the breakup of the ancient kingdom of Ulster and the creation of the kingdoms of Tir Conaill and Tir Egan, and the satellite kingdom of the Airgalla.[6]:pp. [22][23] According to the PBS documentary series Finding Your Roots, Bill O'Reilly, Stephen Colbert, Colin Quinn, Bill Maher, and the show's host, Henry Louis Gates Jr. all display STR markers consistent with the Irish Modal Haplotype. In Irish Kings and High Kings (Dublin, 1973), John Francis Byrne prefers a much earlier date for Niall's death and also suggests the Three Collas never existed. The little Irish (Scotic) colony in that part of Alba just opposite to Antrim had gradually been growing in numbers, strength, and prestigeuntil they excited the jealousy and enmity of the Picts, who tried to crush them. 7879 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. These names continue to be most prevalent in the Northwest of Ireland, the Yet how often out of evil cometh good. and our He conquered the Uliad aristocracy, which ruled in Ulster, and by this victory and subsequent consolidation of power was able to found a dynasty, the Ui Neill, which gave rise to the O'Neill clan. Three of his sons founded kingdoms in Ulster (collectively the Northern Ui Neill), other sons founded kingdom in the Irish midlands (the Southern Ui Neill). century. When Maximus and his Roman legions were, in consequence of the barbarian pressure upon the Continental Roman Empire, withdrawing from Britain, Niall, with his Irish hosts and Pictish allies, treaded upon their hurrying heels." Irelands most popular baby names of 2022 - by county! As the number of hostages was nine, Niall earned the epithet 'of the Nine Hostages'. I welcome your input, feedback and support: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1195848313/niall-and-the-stone Niall Nogallach (Old Irish "having nine hostages") (pronounced [ni%CB%90%CB%88%C9%99l nojilax])[1], English: Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, the eponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. Yet, my paternal Haplogroup is "R-CTS241", which seems to be heavily common of people from the UK, yet my 23andme shows absolutely 0 percentage coming from the UK, actually none from western europe in general.I also share a paternal line ancestor with "Niall of the nine hostages". [7], The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. 279. r/23andme. three centuries of Irish emigration to North America. He fell on the banks of the River Loire, in France, by the hand of Eochaid, the son of Enna Ceannselaigh, King of Leinster, who, from ambush, with an arrow, shot dead the great king. His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill in County Meath. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. [15 ], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. Geneticists at Trinity College Dublin found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. A legendary account of Niall's birth and early life is given in the possibly-11th-century tale Echtra mac nEchach Muimedin ("The adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedn"). Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. concluded that these men descend from "a single early-medieval progenitor" and implied this was associated with Niall's dynasty. Muireann herself occurs in the annals, as in a poem quoted in AT s.a. 649, and her great-grandfather.Aed is mentioned again in a separate entry in the Ban Shenchus.. 3) [S10139] "Irish Pedigrees by John O'Hart , part 1, chapter IV". [3]:81, Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. [10], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. I am not sure if his father Eochy Moyvone is the same person as shown im other sources namely Echu Mugmedn, so I have shown both.
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